EP 16 The Discovery Call: When Does It Make Sense?
The rise of the discovery call has it its peak post-quarantine. Harley & Sonia discuss when brands should request a call, how influencers can ask the right questions to screen a call and protect their time, what are the benefits of getting on a call vs. keeping it on email? Join us as we dissect this specific form of Influencer and Brand connection.
Resources:
Millennial Escape: Check out upcoming workshops: https://calendly.com/harleyyjordann/live-workshop
Timestamps:
[2:30] Who needs discovery calls and why?
[6:01] If you are putting yourself out there, it's good to get in front of the team on a call.
[7:43] Using calls to find selling points.
[10:20] What might be a red flag moment during a call?
[12:47] Treat it like a business.
[16:04] What does the pre-call conversation look like?
[18:27] In summary.
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LINKS:
Find Harley:
IG: @theharleyjordan
Website: https://www.theharleyjordan.com/
Find Sonia:
IG: @Sonia.elyss
Website: https://www.soniaelyss.com/
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00:00
I've got something new on the table for you this month you know about my mini courses and one on one coaching. But do you know that I also offer monthly live workshops. The thing I love most about live trainings is the community involved, meet and collaborate with like minded creators and deep dive into your personalized questions within these mini trainings had to the show notes or the link in my bio at the Harley Jordan on Instagram to learn more and save your seat. Welcome to brand meet Creator Podcast with me Harley Jordan and Sonia Elise, a
0:34
place where we pull back the curtain and the trashy filters on the influencer marketing industry. So pull up a chair and grab a notebook, it's time to shed some light on the ever changing it's diverse.
0:51
today on this episode, we're going to be talking about brand discovery calls when you should actually try to hop on a call instead of being on email. This is one of the weird things of influencer marketing that we kind of forget as an option. Because we feel so disconnected from the brand. When you're talking to them through Instagram, we kind of forget that this is a Business Exchange here. And that we can actually jump on a call. So recently, I was talking to a alum of my eight week program. And she is a homesteader. So she's been searching for seed brands for I don't even speak this language, I'm not even going to try to list anything else, and eventually decided to jump on a call with their marketing team. I assume that these are not huge companies in the terms of seed seed production. But what ended up happening is she jumped on this call and realize that they had absolutely zero budget to talk about anything. And this girl has about 40k Just for reference. So now she's in this weird bubble. She doesn't know how to pivot the conversation. And she's like, wow, I just like had this whole thing. I had this whole conversation. And now we got no luck. And this X, she feels like her time was wasted. Exactly. So that makes me want to jump into this discovery call thing and when you should do it, why you should do it the works, we should ask for how to handle this. Sure. I
2:31
think the discovery call became a thing during quarantine for sure. So for someone who lives in New York, where there is a lot of influencers, we used to host a lot of events. And we would meet people in person at these press events luncheons, launches like just like little cute evening things. And that's how we'd start to get to know influencers in person more frequently. Ones that we worked with, we would take out to lunch or coffee. And we didn't really have as many discovery calls. During peak quarantine, people couldn't meet in person. And brands were trying to get more off the ground, either via zoom or via call. And I noticed more and more influencers being asked if they would like to do an introductory call. And I think a lot of that also came from the PR and marketing side, trying to get you know, excitement or anything happening for their brands. And they would set up these calls to the brands felt like they were making connections and things were happening. But I think you're absolutely right. A discovery call is not for everybody. If you already are getting a lot of paid deals, if you are feeling well established in the industry, not having a discovery call may not be for you, especially if there is no budget involved. So I think
3:55
if the brand is not is not solidified in this industry, either I think I think it's a solid idea to jump on to a discovery call to because what actually, what I use the discovery call for is not only feeling out the vibe of the company, but really figuring out what they want from the campaign really like but what the behind the scenes are so that I can pitch them on something that they actually need. Because I feel like when I'm on email, I'm like grasping at straws. Like, okay, do you want three reels? Do you only have a budget for stories? I don't know. So I'm gonna guess.
4:30
Sure. I mean, I think if you're good and natural on a call and you can limit the amount of time that you're on the call to like 20 Minutes or Less little day, you could definitely get a lot out of it and walk away feeling like I know how to pitch this brand now, or I know that this is a brand that isn't gonna have money in the near future and so you know, the relationship is gonna stay in whatever zone you want it to stay in. It's also a great relationship builder if you have that really exuberant have personality and you feel like you can make a connection with a marketing person or founder that you're being connected with. And it's a great way to learn more about if the brand is a fit for you, you know, it's sometimes you're not learning enough from the website or the Instagram and you want to ask, you know, are these products hypoallergenic? How are they made? What are your business practices, it's a great opportunity to do those things. But if your dance card is full, and you know, you are out there popping deals, I think it's okay to say no for right now. And only associate the discovery call with a paid partnership. A lot of times we do have now for my clients, every time that we're entering into a paid partnership, we include a mandatory call with them, that goes over the brief the tutorials on how to use products, addresses any questions and just lets us have a better sense for the creator that we're working with in general, but you know, to each their own, so I think you really have to be able to assess it. Like at the end
6:01
of the day, if you are someone who is on Instagram who's putting themselves out there, your personality is a big deal. Like there's a reason that your community connects with your personality. So I think it's all the better to get you in front of get you in front of the team and chat it through live, you can hear so much more in the person's voice and like what they're saying, That's not explicitly said about what's going on what the budget is what they're looking for, if they jump on, and they're like, Well, we are a brand new company, and we're really just like just starting out our influencer marketing program, then maybe I'm not going to, you know, pitch them on. I don't even know what, maybe. Right, in general, maybe I'm going to be more more careful about what I'm offering and how I'm phrasing it.
6:53
Sure. I think that's a really important aspect. And I think if a brand is approaching an influencer, with the idea of a discovery call, and you're not sure which direction it's going to go in, it's fine to follow up and ask more detail like, sure. You know, I'm interested in doing the call, you know, my schedule is quite busy. I would love to little bit would love to know a little bit more about what your goals are for the call. Is it just to like, get to know you better? Is it to talk more about a paid partnership idea? Is it to discuss a specific launch that's coming up? I think leaving it open ended and asking them what are their goals for this call? is a great way to test the waters as to do you have time for this? And is it of interest to you?
7:42
Here's why I use it strategically, is because once you start talking about price once you start talking about the deliverables involved, if those aren't necessarily clear, if they fuss around? Well, I don't really know what we're looking for. That's when I'm like, you know, let's talk about this live. Let's, let's jump on a call, let's break down what you actually need in your marketing. Do you need content? Do you need, you know, promotion? Do you only have an affiliate program, do you whatever, and then give them some options. And most of the time that is going to be like if it is easier to jump on a call, let's jump on a call. Sometimes that isn't going to be easier. Sometimes that brand is going to be huge, and their marketing person is going to be way swamped. And you're never going to hop on a 15 minute call. And that's okay. But giving them the option to go live and chat about it for real in real time, I think is a really power. It's a power move, I think. Sure. And
8:41
I think it's a great sales tool for sure if you know the type of brand that you're dealing with, and you have a sense of what you can offer in that amount of time for sure. I think it could be a really great opportunity to take something from an intro to a brand to like what are you really struggling with right now? Like how's it going on your Instagram account? How's it going on your tick tock? And if the marketing person comes back, like oh, you know, like, we're really struggling to create video, that's a great lead in to be like, oh, so interesting. Like, I've been creating tons of videos for X, Y and Z, you know, I can make three for $1,000. If that's something you're interested in, I'd be happy to like email you more info. But you have to have those things ready to go. Because on the brand side also like they're also busy. Right? Also busy. And if someone is approaching me and saying, you know, I'd love to get on a call to talk about this. Don't waste my time on that call. I'm with something ready to go. Does that mean? Yes, for sure. Come with ideas. But do you have to give me free ideas? No, you can keep a very broad don't feel like you need to give away all your good ideas. But you can say like, Oh, I've worked with X, Y and Z brands that feel really similar to this and I think I could be a great fit for future partnerships. Or you know, I See that you do a lot of this type of real ASMR. I've been practicing ASMR like, I don't know, have some background on the brand and the company and what they do, so that you're ready to go. You're not just sitting there like a dead fish like you tell me what you want. And I'll tell you if I can do it like it doesn't work that way. It's a two way street here, people,
10:20
this is actually a great, great conversation, what is like a red flag, turn hills and run. I'm crossing you off my list right this instant while we're still on the call kind of moment. They show up
10:33
late. That bothers me. And that's like later than two minutes. Okay, two minutes past when you were supposed to start fine. past that. I'm getting annoyed and I don't waste my time.
10:47
Well, also, you're you're committing to a brief for a business proposition, like, does that mean that you're going to post late
10:56
to Exactly, exactly, you're telling me a lot about who you are, if you're showing up to the entry call late. I would also say having like zero reference points of the brand, like make sure that the five to 10 minutes before the call you are on the brand's Instagram, you are on the brand's website, we're seeing recent things. I love to reference a recent launch a product I've used in the past. Anything that now you exactly. I love your founder, oh, I used to work with X, Y, and Z who's now on your team anyway. And that all really goes back to basic networking. But that's definitely something if they come to the table in terms of a red flag, and they know nothing about the brand. And they can't reference anything. And they're just like, Yeah, I like it. It's pretty much the same as a cold pitch. Like where they're telling me I like your brand. Goodness, gonna be a red flag for me. And I think the third one is not coming to a discovery call. Now I'm seeing call but I'm thinking it's gonna be a zoom or Google me because that's the world that we're in now. And they're keeping their camera off. Like, we could have just emailed like what? Email learning anything about you here. And if it's if it's a phone call phone call, then of course,
12:14
different site. I don't need a FaceTime.
12:15
Exactly. Although Harley loves a FaceTime, I love surprise, FaceTime, I'll go that's the case. Like, if it's not the case, then you should have your camera on, you should be ready to go and consider it like an in person meeting. This is your chance to get in front of the brand and show them what you can do show your mannerisms talk and connect with the person on the other end more. So camera off is going to be a red flag for me. Did I miss any?
12:47
You know what I've talked about this so much lately with clients? Because this is such a underrated tip in influencer marketing. treat this like a business. This is a business you are doing yourself an injustice if you're not treating this like a business. And I feel like I scream this from the rooftops and it's always my least performing lowest performing content, because everyone is like Yes. So what I understand, but then I still get these people that will send me these example emails. I'm like, bubbling inside fuming. And it'll be like, hey, love. I think your thing is so cute. I would love to work with you. That's amazing. Ah, like, no, don't call the brands love. Like, get out of here with your emojis. Get yourself in frickin email. Get out of your DMS. Like,
13:36
come on, come on. Oh, that. Yeah, I would say and I think that a lot of creators are subject to this issue because they maybe did not have full time corporate jobs prior or they had jobs prior that were also in the social media space, which were much more relaxed less buttoned up. It's not the way I was raised. So I'm looking for people who come correct, you know, treat it like a Bezier right?
14:06
I don't expect you to come in a suit. I don't expect you to come no dressed for an interview. Like I don't care if your hair is in a bun. I don't care if like you're kind of a mess today. Like that doesn't matter to me. But handle this like a business interaction.
14:22
Absolutely. The basics are still the basic show up on time. Know your stuff. Don't come to the table empty handed. basic etiquette. Send a thank you know if you were the one that oh, here's a good one. This is a hot tip. If you were the one that requested the discovery call because you wanted to pitch something. Send a thank you note for that person's time. will take you everywhere.
14:48
Yes, yes. Okay, here's here's the other thing. Don't price yourself in the meeting. Price yourself afterwards via email.
14:57
Yes, all DL requirements didn't go in writing. Never trust what someone's saying in a chit chat because they may not have clear that with their superior. Yeah, you may not have understand understood all the requirements, they might need some form of exclusivity that was not discussed. Yeah. And if they're gonna hold you to that rate, you're in trouble. So make sure if rates start to come up, you say, Oh, this is really interesting. Or if you get a range, I think that's good. So that you can know like, oh, you know, like, maybe you can't quote your exact budget, but we'd love to know if you know, it would fit between one to $5,000, then, you know, sort of like we're negotiating in the same language, because if someone has a budget of $500, you're not going to be a fit. Right? So I think you don't have to go to specifics. But even talking about do you have a budget? And could it be within this range? And same thing with recording your pricing? Like, oh, yeah, it ranges, you know, my post packages range, but they start at maybe this rate, five, to give them an idea, but the firm stuff always goes in writing?
16:04
Totally, totally. And do you think we should be talking about back to this original story? Do you think we should be talking about that same range? Before we even jump on a call? Do you think that what is the conversation need to look like before in your eyes
16:18
before I think going back to what I said before, which was asked about their goals for the call. And if you think that it is going to be a monetary discussion, I think you have the option to send your rate card, or you know, your range of rates in advance. If you'd like to see, you know, I'm just letting you know, my sponsored posts range from $2,000 to $10,000. For packages, like, if that's comfortable for you, I'd love to move forward with this call, then you're leaving it wide, because of course, every creator has a wide range of packages and offerings that they can bring to the table. But you're setting a little bit of a precedent. I don't think that that is a has to. But if you are like this story that Harley is telling, and you're coming to the table thinking this is going to be for a paid opportunity, then yes, I would start that conversation before you get in the call. If you're going into it like Oh, I'm fine with just discovering this brand. And having more of a chitchat and seeing what the options are, what the opportunities are, then I don't think that you have to send those rates in advance.
17:25
I don't know, I kind of think that that is such a fault on the brand, that they that they even did that, like did you just not expect that for your seeds, there would be some kind of pay for content.
17:39
I think if they were a small brand like you're describing and influencer marketing is very new to them, they probably just thought like many other sales calls. There's always an entry call first, if they really have no previous history of influencer marketing or very little. I'm not surprised that they felt this way and that it left her feeling kind of shocked. Maybe it was also part of her due diligence that she should have asked in advance or seen how much they'd worked with influencers. And when you see that no one has a lot of influencers tagging them and they've never worked with influencers before. Just be prepared for anything because they may not have that knowledge that other brands already have. They may not have someone in house, who's experienced and ready to you know, dive into the deals right away. Alright, so wrapping up. If you are considering a discovery call in the future, start slowly. Know the goals that the brand is looking to accomplish on that call. If you are looking for a paid opportunity, make sure you start to make that clear before you even get on the call and come to the table with ideas show up to the call like a smart business person and use that face to face time to your best ability. Get ready to go. Because it all it all gets started when you make those connections.
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Thank you for tuning in. If you have questions, comments, deep concerns, come hang out with us on Instagram. We'd love to hear what else you want to learn about