EP 23 Meet the Creator: Negotiate brand deals with confidence with @careercoachdarci
Darci from @careercoachdarci is back to chat about her zone of genius, negotiating rates. We break down the mindset and strategy involved in confidently pitching yourself, upping those rates, and lying where it counts.
Timestamps:
[1:20] #1 tip for negotiating a higher pay.
[4:55] Influencing is like the wild west.
[8:12] How transparent is too transparent?
[11:13] How do you ensure brands won't be turned off by a high rate?
[15:01] How much lying is okay?
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LINKS:
Follow Darci:
IG: @careercoachdarci
TikTok: @careercoachdarci
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IG: @theharleyjordan
Website: www.theharleyjordan.com
Find Sonia:
IG: @Sonia.elyss
Website: www.soniaelyss.com
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Welcome to brand meet Creator Podcast with me Harley Jordan and Sonia Elise, a place where we pull back the curtain and the trashy filters on the influencer marketing industry. So pull up a chair and grab a notebook, it's time to shed some light on the ever changing it's diverse. I'm bringing back my girl Career Coach Darcy to chat about none other than negotiation to give you some background. Darcy holds an MBA and started in the corporate world where she spent time as an office manager and recruiter, she has since stepped away from the corporate world and created her own business as an online career coach and has grown following to over 200k. If you're looking for some of her advice about how on earth she did this, check out our last episode. But right now, we have to pull back the curtain on some of that negotiation. Because, yes, because it's your favorite because you talk about it all the time. And also, brand deals and salary negotiation are really just on the exact same playing field.
Exact I love that Harley and I can talk back and forth, even when when we're in two different industries. And it's the same exact conversation when it comes to emotions, the exact
yes, we're like fuming often about silliness. So you post a lot about just a transparent version of negotiation, and what businesses are really looking for what they see when you say various things. And I feel like I'm constantly absorbing your wording for my pitches, too. So what's your I mean, this is a big question. But what's your number one tip for negotiating a higher salary rate, etc.
In terms of negotiating? I mean, I'm sure you've been through job negotiations as well. My number one tip, and I will say this is probably I want to use the word polarizing, because some people don't agree with this and do with it, what may well, but this is my advice. So if you are negotiating, I believe that you should tell people what you want. I don't think you should dance around the question. I don't think you should try and like make them say a number first. Of course, that's the goal, right? You ask what the budget is, and you hope that they'll tell you. But guess what, they might not tell you or they might super lowball you now, what are you going to do? Yeah, if you didn't come into that with a knowledge of what you wanted, there's no fun and either walking away, or knowing what you're going to say next in that, yeah, back and forth email, or in a phone call. So to give you an example, we just went through this, I had a brand come to me. And they wanted to work together for me to pitch them for having people to like apply to their jobs. Great. I think it's a great idea. I have really good engagement, especially if I'm putting up a link to go apply somewhere. And so I started off the conversation by telling them that, hey, I have great traction on my stories. I'd love to post a link, like already started those negotiations. And Harley and I know I'm not going to do a real probably for less than $1,500. That's like my lowest. So that's my walkaway number. And so they came back with like something in the for 400 or something. And yet there was automatically we both knew we're walking away. We don't need you don't need to like for something you have to know when you're gonna walk away. So to answer your question, biggest tip is know what you want before you even start negotiating. So you can feel happy with the outcome. Oh,
this is this is the first thing that I teach about pricing. Because yeah, people always want the like, what percentage should I be asking? And what makes sense for bla bla bla industry standards, but at the end of the day, like what's your getting into bed rate? Like how much does it really cost? How many hours am I taking to get out of bed? Do my makeup, do my hair look presentable, sign that contract, think of the idea, shoot, edit, write a caption, then invoice them later. Like there's so many things that go into this other than just the creating So,
right? I know, a fun little thing I do is this is kind of sassy. But I'm one little thing that's a little sassy. But if I'm working with someone, and they decide to pay me, let's just use easy numbers like $500 Right. And I actually well let's say I wanted 1000 But again, I had like a walkaway number like anything under that I would have been I did it so 500 Well, what I did was I billed them $500 For the video, but on my invoice, I put my hourly rate for everything else that I did productions that of editing, the video captioning all the things and I wrote discounted, free, discounted, free, discounted free so they saw all the $500 that they sent me. I love
that. I love that because it gives you such leverage to come back later and say read the read the bill like there's so much more that wasn't included on top of this trial. So I want to backtrack to this like asking for a price versus telling a price thing, because I feel like there was some bad advice going around for a while about like, just ask for the budget, like, that's a good negotiation tactic. And it's really just not because you're gonna go back and forth with this brand, and they're never gonna tell you a budget, because very often, too, you have a brand, like, let's really think of what behind the scenes, this looks like, you're gonna have a brand who has 1000s and 1000s of dollars of a budget, they're probably scouting multiple creators at a time. So them telling you that they have like a $500 budget, like that's just a guess. Like, that's not that's definitely not a real number. I always refer to
influencing and like getting paid to do influencing as the Wild Wild West, at like, it's so arbitrary. There's people make up their numbers, no one really knows what they're doing. So yeah, I 100% agree with you. But you just have to know what you feel your worth is and what you want to be getting paid per hour and hold true to that. And guess what, if they were willing to pay you $5,000? You'll never know. So who cares? If you're happy with 2000? And you've got it be happy about that? Right? What does it matter if they were gonna go I say that about salary negotiations, if you are so excited about $100,000, ask for it. If they were going to pay 150, you're never going to know that you're gonna be happy with 100. And then you're gonna have, you're gonna prove yourself, you're gonna have three months. Yep, same with what you're doing, right? We're gonna prove ourselves, we're gonna have a really good, real or whatever it is. And then we're gonna come back, we're gonna ask for more.
So I see you all the time, recommend telling them a range? Do you do some collaborations? Is this something that you this is something that I should start doing? Literally, for you as my client, lol?
Yeah, actually. So the reason I give a range is if you don't know the scope of work yet. So if they're coming to you and saying, What's your rates, you should never respond and just tell them one rate? Because what if that doesn't make any sense? You don't know what the work is? Like? What's my rate of I can give you a rate for a reel and a story? Sure. But like, am I having to like, say your brand more than two times? Yeah. Link? Am I having too creative? Oh, my gosh, there's so much that goes into it. So think of it like a job? What's the scope of work of the job, if you're a product manager somewhere, and the scope of work is to actually manage people, but you're a product manager somewhere else, and you don't have to manage people? That's two different salaries. So if you're pitching, you know, when you're saying like, hey, my rate is this, I would say my rate is between 15 $102,000. For real, I would like to know the scope of work in terms of what you really need out of this reel. And what the yes, you know, what does that mean, for me, before I give you a set rate,
I don't want to give you a definitive rate before I know everything about this, like I want the brief I want like, I want all of the details before I give any kind of rate?
Yes. Are you using it? And you have to include that in that email? Like I always right at the bottom of my emails, anything additional in terms of usage or ads, things like that, like that will be extra. And I don't give them how much extra right because I want to make that up later. Exactly. I
want to make it up later. How transparent do you think is too transparent with all of this?
Well, I am I'm a firm believer in being transparent with everything I do. So I'm probably on the side of like, just be as honest as possible. Because again, if you're doing what you want, and you're happy with it, transparency, like there should be no shakiness there. Now, if you're getting, you're getting nothing back in return from the brand, that's a red flag. If they're not giving a little when you give a little, that's where you need to pull back.
I think so too. I think this ultimatum thing of like, if they don't respect your time and energy, like you wouldn't sign on to a job like that. So why are you signing on to a project like that?
No. Oh, can I give an example. I'm going to name drop of brand two, because I love this. So I so I had a situation where a brand actually reached I say brand. I mean, they're like a huge media company. Rhymes with morning ru, aka morning brew. And they reached out to me. And they actually asked me to pitch them a podcast. So they had me spent I spent hours like hours, they sent me questions and prompts and like, Hey, what's your podcast gonna be about? We'd love to have you do a series, we'll pay you all these things. I'm like, Yeah, that sounds great. This is what it's gonna be. So I sat down, worked hours on it, sent it back to them. This was six weeks ago, have not heard a word, not even a response of, hey, we got it, but we're not moving forward with this anymore, right? Nothing. And you think for a second that if you ever come back to me and say we'll give you $300,000 To do a podcast with us. I will never say yes to that because I respect communication and I respect the brand. And that is not what you do. So yeah, that's not happening.
I think that just was right into, like workplace culture, like you just can't, you just can't. So you need to walk away. I don't want to go back and forth with you. If you don't respect me, like, I'm never going to convince you. And I feel like lately too, it's becoming more and more of the wild west where I'm just having to walk away left and right. Like, no matter if it's a big brand, like, you know, morning brew has tons of cash money.
Yeah, they were just acquired by like Business Insider, like, Are you kidding me? That's just to give an example of like, you have to know your worth and like, stand by that and what is important to you. And that's what negotiation comes down to. And like, I talk a lot about confidence. And there's a confidence piece behind negotiating. If you're shaky, your ask, and you're like, I don't know if this is even what I'm worth, like, No, you have to be confident in it and go with it. Like, of course, there's that feeling of like, what can I charge? I remember, every time I get asked my rates, I charge more. Like the other day, it was like, printing, I was like, Oh, 2000 like I just like I'm like, let's see how much they'll pay. You know, let's just keep pushing the envelope. Why not? There's no like regulation here. They don't know not. Yes. Yeah.
So okay, this is a good, this is a good point, what happens? Because I hear this from the brand side, if they feel like they have to lowball you to negotiate. They might just not not even ask for the question. So how do you ensure that they're not going to be super turned off by your high rate?
Right? Well, it depends. Again, you have to think about what you want. If you're willing to walk away with that high rate, then who cares? I mean, yeah, if they're not willing to talk to you, then that's, that's fine. But if you're like, you know what, I actually would want to work with this brand. Even if it was a lowball offer, like, I'm okay with that. So let me do some research. Let me think about like, how have my views been lately? You know, I'm not saying go into this with no Artley. No, no research at all. And like, just throw wild numbers out there. I'm just saying, like, when you decide on your number, you have to be strong in that. Yeah. And that's what like, holds the negotiations. But in terms of like, yeah, like, you're not, I'm not someone with 100,000 followers, like, I'm not charging, like insane amounts of money. I'm not gonna walk in to a negotiation be like, I want $10,000. This real, like if we want that.
I'm just like an amazing point. That's an amazing point. Because you know what that brand, like I said, This brand is probably going in with a bulk like lump sum budget. So you going in with even $2,000 as a rate like that's, that's still water under the bridge, a lot of the time with these big brands, like, so many, I see so many creators that get scared away by saying numbers in the like hundreds, like, once they get to that like 600 Number, it gets really scary. 800 gets really scary. Once you pass 1000 It like becomes a little bit of a different playing field. But right, like, let's be real, the difference for a brand between 500 and 1000. Like that's, like nominal.
And also I want, like, especially if you're new to this world, like don't be discouraged and feel like you're not getting paid enough. Or because you're listening to us. You're like, oh my gosh, you should be charging more. I don't want you to feel badly about that. Because I got that feeling when I was first starting out, and people were like, Oh my gosh, you're only charging that like no, that's not you should just be happy with what you charge. I was doing videos for 100 bucks, you guys. And I was stoked. Like, I was like, oh my god, people are paying me to do videos like,
yeah, my first collab was 50 bucks, and I did a post and sent them a huge folder of like picture content. And I was like, stoked. Yeah,
yeah. So I'm like, enjoy it, like enjoy the ride. And trust me, you don't need to be an expert at this right away. And it's been really cool to see that like, my excitement in charging, like three $400 was great. And now I'm like, Wow, I'm actually at a point where I'm very confident. And I know for sure that I'm not charging anything less than $2,000 for this reel right now. Yeah. And I'm like, so happy with that, you know?
Yep. Because at the end of the day, like you will find brands that are going to want to work with you. It may be fewer and farther between. But if that means that you're actually getting paid your rate, and you're actually loving working with them, like it's a win win.
Yeah, let's just be clear, because monetizing on one level, if you're only getting money from brands, your life might look a little bit different than mine, you might not be able to walk away from as much so you might have to price a little bit lower to get more opportunities. So it all depends on what your monetization strategy is as well,
right? Just going in with the knowledge in your brain of like, okay, here's the expectation, here's really what I need to bring in. So if I do have that one, one off, that's 500. Like maybe I can accommodate that for one of my like, big bold capital letters. favorite brands, right? So wrapping up here, I have to bring this up. You get a lot of hate for this. And you talk about lying a lot. And you probably phrase it differently than lying. No, don't. Yeah. So how much lying is okay? Like, what do you what's worth lying over?
Well, let's put it this way. I say lying because it gets people's attention. But I really call it making something a Disney movie. That's what I say. So, if you're going to talk about how great you are influencing or how great you're creating content, you better include in there, like how people are emailing you and trying to buy from you. Or even if they're not, right, you better include something that gives us like, some evidence there. And that's the quote unquote, lie. But we need to create some leverage, like, you can't just go out there asking for all this money with no leverage, like, why are you asking for that? Give something right. So yeah, so I always say like me, you know, embellish the truth a little bit. Like, I told a brand one time that hey, my last collaboration, this video, you know, similar thing was around 2000. So, you know, I need to be somewhere in there in that ballpark. And they're like, Okay, if she's already doing something at 2000 then obviously I should pay her that too. Yeah, that was a bold faced lie. I did not I've never that was my first time charging 2000 They don't need to know that. So there you go. That's my it's my line to
know that I and I always tell I always tell creators this about recommending products that you just love, like, how are you? How am I going to know who's to say that the brand didn't send you that? Who's to say that wasn't gifted? Like I don't care if you didn't get paid for it necessarily, but like who's to say so? Why not pretend that it's an example like why not send them that send your next brand that you pitch that example and like position yourself as this expert treat it like a Disney movie
exactly already be that's the whole manifesting thing? Like manifest yourself as an influencer and just start doing the things that an influencer does and then eventually it'll actually turn into a real real job.
I love it. So if you want more of Career Coach Darcy here, you want the negotiation tips you want the behind the scenes of info influence her life on her story. All of the craziness in between tell the people where to find Yeah,
yes find me. Tick tock and Instagram, but all the BTS the behind the scenes on Instagram Stories, everything is Career Coach Darcy and everything Career Coach darcy.com
Thanks for hanging with us. Darcy we will catch you next time.