EP 26 Meet the Creator: Bret Shuford & Mandy Emerson on the BTS of building a connected following
Bret Shuford and Mandy Emerson, performers turned Instagram Coaches, join us to discuss the behind the scenes of growing a following: pivoting careers after lockdown hit, what they learned about creating viral content vs high quality content, how they handle social issues online, and the things that drive them bonkers in the DMs.
Resources:
Upstarter Podcast Network:
www.upstarterpods.com
Instagram: Upstarter Podcast Network
Timestamps:
[2:31] How did it feel to jump into influencing?
[4:50] Mandy and social media.
[8:30] Did Bret have to pivot when beginning influencing?
[11:04] Viral content vs meaningful content.
[17:09] Scrolling your niches and reels bonuses.
[21:46] Learning from mistakes and always moving forward.
[25:54] The success comes when we own who we are.
[29:01] Trolls and how to deal with them.
[38:18] Opening up DMs.
[44:25] What shocked you the most about growing a following?
[48:08] Advice on putting your personality out there.
--
Find Bret:
IG: @bretshuford / @broadwayhusbands
Website
Find Mandy:
IG: @themandyemerson
Website
Find Harley:
IG: @theharleyjordan
Website: theharleyjordan.com
Find Sonia:
IG: @Sonia.elyss
Website: soniaelyss.com
Follow The Brand Meet Creator Podcast:
Rate, Review, Subscribe & Share: podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/brand-meet-creator
We are brought to you by our production team upstart. Our Podcast Network, a virtual podcast production and management company whose unique and customizable approach helps anyone anywhere, turn their passions into a podcast and walk them through all aspects from recording virtually editing, social media assets, monetization, a custom show growth strategy and all other little details. My experience with UPS starter has been on real, I hand them everything, they take the lead, I can focus on making the show and creating the content. So if you're a creator that is looking to expand their personal brand with a podcast or a business that wants to increase awareness and credibility, sign up for a free concert today and learn more you can go to upstart or pods.com or upstart or pods on Instagram and let them know that brand meet creator sent you welcome to brand meet Creator Podcast with me Harley Jordan and Sonia Elise a place where we pull back the curtain and the trashy filters on the influencer marketing industry. So pull up a chair and grab a notebook it's time to shed some light on the ever changing it's diverse
let's bring them out bring them out today we have a meet the Creator panel with to all influence management influencers V Mandy Emerson and Brett Shuford have joined us today to chat about their rise to Instagram fame and all the tips and tricks about showing up on line. So let's meet the creators. Brett Shuford is an openly LGBTQ I always mess up that acronym. Okay Working Actor and coach behind creative life. He has performed produced choreographed and directed dozens of Broadway regional national tours, viral videos, television and film productions from Wicked to Wolf of Wall Street. And as a certified life coach has helped creatives all over the world move from imposter to influencer with the creative marketing map. He is also one half of the lifestyle blog Broadway husband with his husband and new baby Maverick. Mandy Emerson earned a Bachelor of Fine Arts degree with a focus on dance and musical theater after graduation she set out to Los Angeles to audition for all things performing which landed her on a Royal Caribbean cruise line traveling the world of fellow COVID glow up story just like myself. She jumped into social media and the are in early 2020 as is now built the fierce social society membership to bring like minded, ambitious, uplifting women together to share ideas encourage and empower each other to reach goals. They never thought possible. Both of these people. Oh my goodness, guys, guys, guys. Okay, we have some big time, big time guests here who have been around the block and they're performing world putting themselves out there come so naturally, basically born and bred to be online as an influencer. So here's here's here's where I want to start. COVID hit we all jumped into Instagram, right? Is that correct? For you? Did you have a following before the world shut down?
I had a following before I had, I think maybe 12,000 followers just from the different Broadway shows and things I had done. But I was not full time at all. And I went full time pandemic. Yeah.
How did it feel jumping in, in the beginning?
It's, it's, I think, coming from the world I come from there's such a judgment and such a, like, disdain for like the idea of influencer, and I don't know, maybe that happens. And for a lot of people, because I think there's been some pretty fake people out there who have grown their following over the years. And, and so I was always a little apprehensive to, like, fully own it because I felt so much judgment from other people. But I think at some point, you just kind of reach this point. It's like, Fuck it, like, I know, I can do this. I know I can do this, hopefully set set a better example maybe change the way that this operates, you know, and, and so I think once I once you just kind of move through that. And that's, that's why talk about the imposter, right? I think that's I once you kind of like make that decision that's like, you just kind of have to go full throttle and not not hold back. You know? Yes.
You know, it's so funny that you say that because I was just talking to another cheerleader who was on my team when I was competing. And he was like you, you are always just so comfortable with like putting yourself out there. Like, I don't know how you do that. And I'm like, Are you kidding me? Me? Me? Are you talking? Are you talking about the same person because I don't I don't feel that way from the inside.
It's the same thing. People would say that to me all the time. You're so comfortable putting yourself out there or I remember somebody said to me at one point, somebody who I really respect who ironically, she's great, she should follow her. Her name, her name is Paula Leggett Chase. She's She has this whole hashtag called antique show girl, she's a Broadway show girl who's like in her unless she's like, in her 60s Now, but she can still kill it. And she's now got 50,000 followers, but I remember like 10 years ago, her saying to me, you're so good at marketing, and I was like, I am like, I didn't think of myself as a marketer at all. I just was always willing to just tell stories and put things out in the world. And, and, and that was when it kind of hit me like, oh, maybe I should actually, like own that and not be like, so like, kind of Yeah, like, like dabbling. You know, I
mean, right now, I mean, no one wants to dabble. I don't, I don't want to dabble in anything. I want to be good at everything. dominate. I want to dominate Mandy Mandy, what's your domination story? How did you feel you jumped in in May.
So I had previous experience with social media before that, but I really didn't put a lot of weight into it. I always loved the idea of social media, and creating content, especially video content with YouTube. Honestly, one day, I was actually when I came back from an Australian itinerary. And I was coming back to the States. So my, my sleep schedule was all messed up. And I was like, two o'clock in the morning watching YouTube videos. And I stumbled upon makeup videos, and I was like, I'm gonna be a makeup artist, and I'm gonna make videos like who am I? I don't know. But then I started making beauty tutorials out of nowhere, but I even though I wasn't like skilled at makeup, I learned that I was actually fairly good at picking up on tech video stuff. So I already had that under my belt. So then when the pandemic hit, I wasn't in love with the job that I had. I was working in the cosmetic industry, which was fine, but I knew that wasn't my beyond doing. I was working for tarte cosmetics, so I was there sales and edgy, like brand education. So I'd go into Ulta and Sephora or wherever tart was sold, educate on new product releases, have events for new product releases help with sounds so relate like,
this is just such an easy progression.
I know it like it has to do. And I learned a good amount of sales. But just I feel like that's where my my craft for serving people showed up because it wasn't, if I didn't like a product, I wasn't about to shove it into somebody's hand. And like I couldn't get past that. Like some people were like, just show them how this works. I'm like, Yeah, but if it's a bad product, I'm not gonna tell you all about it. So anyways, that I mean that I feel like also played into where I'm at now, but when the pandemic hit, lost my job a lot of people did. I mean, I was at the bottom of the totem pole with employment with the company. So it wasn't like, I lost my job. I feel almost bad saying that, because there are people that really did lose their jobs that they were with, or I you know, years and decades. So it was kind of one of those like, lost, like, Okay, goodbye. It was kind of a blessing to me.
I had a very similar situation to I was I was the last to be hired. So I was forced to be hired. And as much as like, Yeah, it sucks, like didn't have a job. Like, totally, I can't, I can't feel for right relate to the great, bigger version of that.
Absolutely. So it's just kind of twiddling my thumbs for a little bit and thought, you know what better time is any as right now, I'm not doing anything, might as well just like pour everything into social media. So it really started out with I started with the things that I knew, which was makeup, social media marketing, being a newlywed, I'd literally been married for a minute, I got married in October. But listen, I had experience so I was gonna talk about being a newlywed link from the things that I knew. But of course, social media and Instagram marketing tips and whatever pulled the most interest. So then I poured more and more into that. And as the months went on, I honed in on who I was talking to, which I thought would be influencers and bloggers turns out, it's actually entrepreneurs and small business owners. I got my first client in September. So it was a it was a progression. But I honestly don't think I would change anything about it. I love saying that I used to talk about newlywed stuff, because so funny, but at the same time, like you just got to start somewhere. So it was an interesting progression.
Brett, did you talk about anything that you don't talk about now? Or where was that? Tell me about a pivot?
Yeah. Well, I mean, I I mostly started talking just about acting, right, because I was working on Broadway and I remember it was really like 2015 2016 I made this big commitment. I was like, I'm gonna post a YouTube video every week for a year and see how it goes. I die. It was a lot of work. I don't
know how I don't know how you both do it all to be honest.
I look at you and I'm like, How does this girl but she has a backyard To Die For so. Anyway, I, I did a series of videos that I would do on YouTube every week. And it was one was called Broadway husbands, which is where that was born out on. One was called Broadway life which was like I would interview I would literally go backstage to Broadway theaters and interview performers and talk about their life working on Broadway. And then I had some this called backstage with Brett. And that was like, literally me like in the dressing room at a Broadway theater or like, kind of vlog style.
Get Ready With Me.
I love that so much.
I would do like original like scripted or like music video kind of content. I did that for a year. And
I always use like video types of content.
You're gonna die when you see it, but some of its really frickin good. And, and yet, I didn't understand why it wasn't getting views. I was like, This is so high quality. This is so good. And like, no one's viewing it. I'm like, this should be viral. i And that was when I really started to just kind of like, okay, what is analytics? What is insights? Like? What are keywords like, I didn't understand any of that stuff. Before I did that. And um, you know, if I hadn't done that, I probably never would have really gone on that deep dive into understanding that stuff. But probably husband's was the most popular content on that channel. And it was then that I was like, Maybe we should create a separate Instagram, you know, platform for probably husbands and now it's become a revenue stream, which is so cool.
So let's talk about that good content thing, because I hear that all the time. We were just talking about this with our with our cameras as we're filming this thing. Right? Has this ridiculous DSLR beauty definition
camera?
And Mandy and I are like glitching over here.
We totally are. What?
i We see this a lot where people are like, Okay, wait, how much quality is necessary? What was your experience with what actually made it viral content versus what made it quality content, there is a difference.
The first will also that I feel like the first thing that comes to mind, whenever this happened for me, I'm thinking like this really good. Why isn't anybody else catching on to how good this is. And the only thing that I can really think of is, I it's, it's about me, I made the content about me. And so I'm a little bit biased in it. Yes, when you make content that serves and helps other people, that's when that starts to really pick up. But listen here, I would love to see your music video behind the scenes. Because that's like a peek into, into kind of play off that too. I have two videos that have like 1000s upon 1000s of views on YouTube, and they are room tours of my room on the ship, even though I would do all these other you know, behind the scenes blog things. Anytime that I did something behind the scenes that people normally don't get to see it either gives them that view that they normally wouldn't get. Or it's super interesting and serves them and helps them in some way that content always does and did really well. Versus stuff that was just about me really fell flat. That's not to sound not to sound like I don't mean for this to sound bad. But like, Who the hell am I for people to care? Like at the time? Who the hell am I for people to care about? Me? Did you guys see the documentary and venting? Anna? Yes, I see that. Okay, when she's talking to the gallery curator, and she's like, No offense, but like, Who the hell is Anna? Like, who are you? Yeah, no offense, you're probably a great person. But like, unless you're a person of interest, then why should I take interest? So that's kind of what I think. I don't know. Brett. Over to you, Brett.
No, I just I think that's true. I think that there is I think especially now, I think people really are only consuming content through the lens of of themselves. Yeah, because I don't know that it was like that a great time. 10 years ago, but now it's like everyone's life. You're not going to give me some sense of value, whether it's laughter joy, or I discount or whatever, then then I'm not going to consume you. And I think it's just like that, that evolution of of what's happened, but I will say like, the highest performing content that I have is the least effortful conscious that I made, right? I mean, it's like the stuff that I just like, Oh, I could do this really quick. This this lighting is great. And I'll just set my phone here against this rock and I'll do it and it has like, two points. 5 million views, right? You're just
sitting on the couch, but I got to do this lip sync. So I think that was the biggest thing for me was switching to a mindset of how does this matter for someone else? Am I creating this for myself? Where am I talking to a friend? Because if I really wouldn't send this to a friend or answer a friend's question with my content, then why does it? Why would I create it, you know, because that's not serving someone else. And that can be secret telling, like, I of course, I want to hear the secret. Of course, I want to hear the tea of what's happening behind the scenes, and I want to know what's in your refrigerator. And I want to know, everything under the your makeup routine, like, tell me about your skincare? Definitely. But make it about me as a viewer, not about you as a creator.
When I had to realize for myself that most of the people who started following me, right, they followed me because I was an entertainer, they followed me because I was working on Broadway, or I was doing theater or whatever. And that's really where my strengths lie. Like, I know how to tell a story and in a lot of different mediums, right? And once I started to just stop trying to do what everybody else was doing, like, stop trying to be an influencer, quote, unquote, and I just started being like, Brett, and like, these are the things Brett's passionate about. I'm gonna share about them, if you don't like them unfollow, like, you know, and and once I started doing that, and and using that skill set of storytelling and entertaining to do that was when I started to notice an increase, right,
Mandy, do you follow anyone in? I mean, I know you follow people in your niche. Hello, both of us. But do you scroll? Do you watch that content? How much? What's your boundary of I can't watch this, I can't consume this.
I probably because I've been doing this for a little bit. Now. I don't know that I could ever take off the market research lenses that I always have on. But there are times, which is really interesting that you asked that there are times that I will get stuck in the scroll. And I will be in there for I don't want to say way too long discussing almost to the point where I get to the end of it. And I'm like, I just feel like garbage right now. Yeah. Because then I've like slipped into the why haven't I done that. And that's so that's so easy to do, why haven't worked it. And I just then I start getting into the comparison. So I'm actually I try and be really careful about that. Because knowing that I can fall into that really easily. I just don't want to do that to myself. So I try and be more intentional when it comes to that scroll. But I feel like we're all we're all human. When it comes to that you get stuck on one thing. And it's just like breathing. All of a sudden your finger starts doing this like scroll motion. And then it stops what you're doing put that away.
Brett, do you do you scroll in your niche?
I do. I mean, I'm constantly looking for inspiration and looking for what other people are doing. So I do i i tend to go
I feel like you take inspiration from other niches though you scroll outside of your niche
I do. And I think it's super important to do that. Because I find that the diversification of my content is really what makes me stand out. And a lot of people who are like, I made this piece of content last week about the reels bonuses, and oh my gosh, you would have thought I told everyone that their mother was on fire. Like it was unbelievable. The comments, the reactions, the people who like came to me and like I'm not getting any bonuses and
I can't stand bonus conversation. This is everything I go
and then I go look at their content. And I'm like, you make three meals a week. And they're all there they're all your dog you and like your views are not high like they're not going to invite you if and I find like I'll make a reels that is about Disney or about being a dad or about coffee or whatever. And sometimes it's like it gets a few 1000 views and sometimes it just it just for some reason will hit 2030 40,000 views and I don't really know why it's it's just it's all about trial and error and that's to me what I love about it that's why I just create I create stuff that I feel is relevant. I create stuff that I feel is relatable and I create stuff that I try to just make people feel like oh my god he gets me like that's it i so I'm he's so with me and screw the fucking reels bonuses everyone just pocket stop worrying about how
much do you make from Rails bonuses and like well, you have to think about this.
I have like we have three accounts right so Stephen has an account. I have an account and probably husband's So we probably total we get about 1500 to $2,000 a month
to really,
Mandy, how much do you make from your bonuses?
I'm in between the 500 to $700 a month.
Okay, here's here's the piece that I think is so unfair. And this really pushes my buttons is that the views count separately. So it doesn't matter that I have high views because Instagram gives me 150 bucks regardless of how many views that I get. Oh, really? Yeah, I get 150 bucks every month. That's, like 111 to 102 100. Somewhere.
That's so well. Okay, so my my bonus right now is absurdly, it's just done.
And what's at 4 million? Yes.
Same. And yes. Like we're testing out this team. And I'm like, why are you testing that out? I don't even know a single real. I don't know anyone that does not? I don't know any. Like, if you really even think about it. I don't know any reels that have gotten. I've not seen one that has over 5 million, like the highest reel seen you? Yeah,
I've seen 6 million recently, I had one client come to me months ago with a random reel. It didn't even make sense literally didn't make sense. And I think this is why it went viral. With 50 mil
is absurd. Like, that's just like such a crazy.
I can't count that high in my lifetime. No, absolutely not.
We know, we know when a real catches, it takes it takes but it takes a little bit to get to that million array view number longer than 30 days, I would bet you so if even if you got it on day one of your bonus, like it's not going to get to a million or even like 5 million within that 30 day. So like, you're telling me, you have to create 84 reels, and all of them have to get to know that's a little brats in the opposite Basecamp.
You just said, Well, you can just be posting three reels a week, I'm over here like, Well, how about far?
Well, I think that I you know, to me, I find the point is the bonuses should not be the reason that you're making. Like everyone who's like, Oh my God, I don't have the reals bonuses. I'm like, Look, even if you did, you could probably like pay for one dinner this month. Right? You know, so stop doing it for that reason. You know, but it is nice to have an additional revenue stream. It's like, you know, at least it's something you know. But I just, I guess my point is like, I just find it really interesting how people do tend to overthink Oh, yeah. When it comes to making content.
Mandy, you are this bubbly makeup girl? How do you think and you've created multiple viral sounds? This is kind of a pivot. But yeah. How have you navigated that in being this badass in business?
Such a good question, I was actually just talking to my husband about this. And I've said this to other people before, but I grew up in grade school and in college, just kind of as like, portrayed as the dumb blonde ditzy girl that didn't have anything in our head. And I hated that so much, because I was like, I'm so much more. And I actually found myself falling into that a couple of times, like, everyone just knew me as like Mandy. You know, and I just, I was like, I'm so much. I'm so much more than that. So then when I was truly given this opportunity to then dive into entrepreneurship and make something for myself, I was like balls to the wall. No holding back, I'm just gonna go for, I don't know, it was just kind of one of those like, I will not be known as ditzy blonde, nothing and I had Mandy. Absolutely not. So I'm not when it comes to. And I think this might come from the performing side of things when you're on stage, like your everything's just out there. And if you mess up, you just you can either lay on power, and be afraid and run off stage or you can like sit there and own it and make something of it. And if you love to be able to make something.
You better make the audience believe that those were the dance. Yes, I think
that's such an opportunity. That moment right there. You can either run off in like cower in a corner and I say cower and have questions that you can run away from it. Or you can choose to make it on an opportunity to like, evolve, make it better or whatever, learn from that that moment and just like keep moving forward, I choose to keep moving forward. So when it comes to all these different changes on Instagram and the different and business and now we're kind of going into, they haven't officially said it but like let's be honest, we're going into a session like the economy is what I could do at home, instead of like sitting you know, and hugging my knees up to my chest and be like, Oh my God, what's the get I'm gonna get into I'm like, oh, let's just go for it. Let's go. Find, let's get creative with it like faced with adversity, let's figure something out and just do the dang thing. And say that we tried, if it falls flat, all right, fine. But I would much rather say that I tried than not. So I think it's just that mentality of like, I'm ready to take messy action, I don't care what it looks like, I just want to be known as the person that tried, and maybe something really magical can come out of it.
You know, this has been a huge learning experience for me too, because I've had such a chip on my shoulder about having to insert myself in conversations, insert my brain into conversations. And I was really self conscious about that. In every other work environment, I was in these very male dominated industries I was in, I worked in a celebrity training facility. So you had these big macho male trainers, I worked in a fortune 500 construction company for a second again, same thing Brett's like cringing at
that man looking at his face, he's like, No.
Remember, and, like, keep in mind, I had more certifications, I had a lot more education than some of these trainers that I would tell I was talking to. And I remember walking into conversations and trying to like casually slip my max back squat into the conversation, because I felt like I needed right then and there to grasp some kind of leverage and credibility and respect. And it worked. And that's tragic. And so going into Instagram, now I'm doing the same thing of like, learning how to not throw out to just insert my brain into things. Because if I'm being me, if I'm being bubbly, extra leader performer, then I'm gonna meet my people, I don't need the people that need to, you know, put me down for anything.
I think that's kind of where, you know, for me where this all stemmed from similarly in is that I was doing, this is the thing, like, I had a dream to be on Broadway, from when I was six years old, right? That's all I ever wanted out of life. And then you get there. And you're like, now what? Like, I literally hadn't thought past that moment and crisis, right. And it happened for me at 26 or 25. Right? So then I was like, I don't know what you know, and you're just supposed to do eight shows a week. And, you know, and then when the show closes, I have no job. And then, like, I didn't know what to do. And I was searching and searching and searching and searching. And still trying to get these people in this community, this probably community, the theatre community to to approve of me because that's what has to happen in order to work is like they have to, they have to hire you. They have to like you, they have to want to work with you. And I remember it was like my eighth it was I was doing wicked. My last Broadway show before the pandemic hit. And I got into that show thinking this is glorious. This is the job that's going to help me start my family, I'm going to have a baby, this is the show's never going to close because it's wicked. And I was miserable. I was there for a couple months. And I was like, I don't like not having autonomy. I don't like having to take notes from people. I like being my own boss. I don't like them telling me what I can and can't do. And then I also just didn't like that the environment was a toxic environment. And I was like, why am I making money for these people? When I know, I know, I have it in me to make money for myself. And when the pandemic hit, it was like, boot to the butt do this. And I'm so glad I did. And I think that there's so many people who don't understand it's so capable it is so within their power. Yes. If they can just go you know what I'm, I want to I want to I want to own this I want to own who I am and I'm gonna put who I am out into the world,
right? Put more out there. Talk on that real like,
Just do it. Just just put yourself out there. What's
the what's the worst that can happen? Like, your friends are gonna judge you your your relatives are gonna judge you. Rude.
Yeah, and what's this? I'm not making I'm not making it for them there.
Mandy, I see you shaking your head. What's going through there?
No, I could not agree more with everything you just said, Brett. I thought one of the funny things that you said how toxic the environment is. It's just so funny to me. And I like I feel like we've all been there. It's just so funny to the meat to me that outsiders that are not performers look at us and we're like Oh, that's such a glamorous life and like oh my god if you only knew how toxic this environment and I feel like that's kind of made us resilient to trolls online because they're like, you like don't hold a candle to the crap that I went through.
Oh my god, I He said this vivid memory of being of cheering in college. And we're like doing something across the floor and our coach stops us stops us. And he starts screaming. All of you are stupid. All of you are going nowhere in life dieted at it. I like just yelling. And I'm like, sitting there laughing, because I'm like, Well, I would just tell them like, what are you kidding? Because we, like messed up on a pass, because we didn't walk fast enough. Like, what's
what's happening? Like, I think the problem with trolls, and I think everybody goes through this in the beginning, is we think that because one person has said it, everybody also thinks the same. And that's where our mindset goes. So just flipping that it is literally one person out of a Great Big Sea of all these other people that are singing your praises, and that are giving you compliments, and that are saying, Thank you so much for this, but that Yeah, little voice, we seem to then duplicate into a whole bunch of other voices. And it's yet it's not true. It's one person. And I tend to think like, gosh, I feel I feel kind of bad for that person, that they are either really unhappy in their own life, or they're like, so frustrated by something that has absolutely nothing to do with me. But because I my content, my reel just showed up on their screen right at the perfect time. It actually has nothing to do with me, it has everything to do with something else that they're going through. And I'm sad for them. Because no, I don't want people to be sad or unhappy in their lives. I ideally want everyone to be happy. Right? So then you think like, this actually has nothing to do with me. Once I made that shift. Like, I could care less about what people have to say about the internet. First of all, you don't know me, you don't know my heart, clearly. And I also feel bad for you. Because this doesn't have anything to do with me. It has everything to do with that.
Right? You've experienced that recently.
Yeah, we had this. Harley kind of actually helped me through this moment. Because there was this guy, who's who's actually like somebody who's perfect, perfectly part of our community. Um, probably husbands, we posted something where we were waiting in line for Social Security office. And I think it was a two hour line or something. And I was just sharing about it. Like, this is kind of silly that like, you can get a gun in like, a matter of hours. But I it's gonna take me four weeks to get a social security card. I don't understand it. And then there was like, a moment inside right to put a story post and I put COVID in quotes. And it wasn't it was just like grammatical. It was just like, Oh, I'm like, Okay, I'm gonna post something that stories. It wasn't even anything. I was like, I'm gonna prove some sort of point about the pandemic.
What you said was you made a joke about the social security line being like a Disneyland ride but you don't get to meet Peter Pan at the end
it was a joke. I was like, if we're gonna wait in line for two and a half hours at least let me ride Peter Pan's Flight and I think I put Tinkerbell Tinkerbell on a slider. And this guy came at me and he's like, purposefully,
but I put Tinkerbell on the slider. You should have known it was a joke. Joke.
And this guy came at me and and not only did it come at me, like he came at us, like in the DMS. And I was like, Oh, I'm so sorry. Like, that wasn't meant to be anything that's just grammatical. And he just kept trying to like, read me. And I've never been read like this. And his account had like, 124,000 followers. So he's like, he's, like, clearly like, followed by people in the gay community. And I was like, Okay, well, this is part of our audience. I want to make sure they feel taken care of. I was like, you know, it's it. Listen, it wasn't it was a mishap if you don't want to follow me unfollow me, no problem. He took screenshots of the DMS shared them in his stories tagged us on all of them, told his audience, Brett Shuford and Steven Hanna are behind Robin husbands go follow them and tell them that they're wrong. It was just like another level of like, I've never, ever, ever, anyone who knows us knows, like, we're fully vaccinated. We've survived the pandemic Renea we just had a baby like, I don't know, it was just like one of those things and I was like, you do want to take care of your audience, but like, at some point, I said, Because I said listen, you know, we're getting some hate speech and I just don't really appreciate you doing that. And he was like, Well, I'm not taking it down. I was like, I'm not telling you to take it down. You can keep it up. And I think that's the thing we have to realize. You're not my people. Yeah. And if you if like you can slant you can slander me all you want. The people who know me. They know me they know my heart. They know.
At the end of the day number one that's against community guidelines. This is what fired me up was that the reposting Have DMS is against community guidelines, you're shaming someone, you're promoting bullying and harassment, which happened after. And Instagram actually, I reported every single one of these stories slides. And Instagram came back with their little report update and said, denied we're not taking them down. This was fine. So it just seems it seems so backwards that someone can go after you and your livelihood, literally your livelihood.
Yeah, I think that's it's fascinating, too, because, like, he's like, this guy was part of the gay community. Like, just like, we're part we're on the same side here. Like, and I think that's really the hard thing to comprehend in those situations is like, why would you try to, quote unquote, hold someone who's already being accountable. And by the way, this is, this is the thing for anyone listening. If someone isn't willing to put their name on their account, or their face, on their accounts,
a meme account
and they're gonna come after you. Not only are they a troll, they're a coward.
Absolutely. Hi. I guess I just don't I can't wrap my head around people like that. I don't I don't understand like our world has enough. has enough is already so broken. We have enough hatred, we have enough evil we just have enough unkindness. You're even though it's just like that interaction that he had with you, Brett. I feel like I Where was I? What was I doing? Once you call me it? Was this thread against public shaming, I'm so against bullying and harassment culture. I'm so against Kancil culture. Brett, you and I had a really great discussion on that to like, give people the opportunity to grow and be accountable. But I also feel like there's a time and place to have those types of conversations. Like if he wanted to have a conversation with you, Brett. He could have he should have while he had it privately to start, he should have kept it in my opinion. That way. There are conversations we need to have in public. Absolutely. public shaming people gets us nowhere. If anything, it makes them more resentful. Yeah, it creates division. I feel like it creates more trauma like and what I was what I was gonna say to aside from the income, you know, going after somebody's income, like we're all one of a kind creatures, and you guys know that I'm the Jesus loving woman that I am. I truly believe that we are all called for a purpose. We are all called to do something very specific on this earth. That is not all of us go save the whales, because who then would go save the environment? Like right, like who we're not all called to do the same thing. We're all just doing the best that we can at least I can. We're all doing the best that we can. We're all fighting for the things that we're passionate about. And that might look different from each other. But that doesn't mean going after somebody because like how dare you, Bretton save the whip, like really? Like I need you to just take a backseat.
So that my lens is you know, just to remember that hurt people hurt people. Yes, yeah. And there's a lot of damaged and hurt people out there. And they're gonna find a path to continue to damage hurt others because of their own hurt. They don't know how to process it. And when you're a public figure, you're opening yourself up to that. And I think it's just super important. The lesson I learned is as Bromley husbands grows, I need to engage in the DMS less. I can, I can apologize. And I can say yes, like okay, but like that was my lesson. Do not have a conversation with someone who's not willing to show their face or their name. And if you're gonna have a conversation with them either say like, let's do it over the phone. Let's do it somewhere where it can be recorded and shared
public Right, right. Yes. Do it or do it invoice No. Do it in something. Wow,
care. Yeah, not care because like, dude, unfollow me. You don't like Yeah, absolutely. We
talked about this a lot. In terms of the DMS. And when you open yourself up to these hard conversations, these tough topics, this deep water, you are opening yourself up to response. And one of the things that we have touched on is you do have a responsibility to kind of take that in but it turns really quickly into this trauma dumping of like, here's my whole life story here is everything that's happening. Here's my thoughts, my feelings, my deep concerns and even yesterday I posted I posted three slides on what happened it happened in Texas with the school shooting and 75 responses came in to those those messages and they were all lengthy and I'm not Not saying that. I didn't want that, because I opened up the conversation. That was what I did. But I spent my entire day yesterday, when you post about those kinds of things you spend your entire day in your DMS. And what? That's literally my that was literally my job yesterday. Yeah.
I mean, you're gonna trigger people. When you when you talk about real life things, I
don't know if it's necessarily wrong or right of me, again, I go back to I'm always trying to do the best that I can. And there's certainly things I can think I can say that for all of us. There's things that we're doing behind the scenes that people don't see, that I know are making a difference. We're bettering we're donating, we're, you know, giving our time we're talking with people that love it, right like that people don't see that aspect. So I know Harley, you and I have talked about this to that when tragedy hits the world, like how do then we as influencers, business owners, people that are on social media move forward? And I just go back to like, Listen, I'm called to do something. And I have to keep moving forward in a different way. I'd have to keep moving forward. Because what I'm doing does matter. And I know people are like, what posting grills? No, it's so much more than that. I'm I believe that I'm helping people grow a business that then can support their own families and their livelihood. So then they can donate to these bigger causes. Like it has a massive ripple effect. But what I'm doing, like is a part of that. So even though I may not be posting on my socials, that's because I mean, I so applaud those that are opening, or like, you know, opening the conversation, I just know that I don't know that I can support people in that moment. So I go through the things that I know that I'm really good at helping with, because that I'm sure can then feel heavy. But there's there's no reason actually one of my one of the girls on my network marketing team, she posted about getting a Target box that was filled with baby formula. And if you've been following the news for a while the formula has been lacking. And somebody responded to it. How can you post about this when there was a mass shooting at an elementary school because you're a mother. And that just hit her so hard. I'm like that, that's not fair for you to do, we can't do that to each other. Because again, we're just trying to do the best that we can, in those circumstances, certain circumstances. So it can be hard to tune that out. But again, I again, going back to the do the best you can know that what you're doing is making a difference.
The hitch that I run into is that we have privilege to not be able to speak about it. But you also have privilege to be able to speak about it and sidestep your business for the day. It's so weird. I feel
I feel most of the time when something happens. A tragedy happens. It feels tone deaf for me to post about anything that doesn't at least console or offer some some bit of education. Like I may be like, enraged, but it's not about me, like I can't change people's minds if I just go venting about how pissed off I am. But try but I can hopefully share something that somebody else who I follow who has who is on that platform where they're educating people, I can share their content. But I think it's I you know, like for instance, we have some amazing content that we made on probably husbands about formula that we cannot post right now. Yeah, because it would be completely tone deaf. For us to be like talking about how Maverick spits spits up on us from the formula that we feed in, when there's people who can't even get formula. Right. Yeah, right. Right. And I know that if I post it, we're gonna get all kinds of shifts from people, and I don't, you know, so it would be tone deaf, and I just need you know, I think that's really important. And I think one of the reasons why I when I'm working with clients even I'm just like, just be really careful about your automations and your scheduling and all of that because you want it you want to still be real and and I think some people it's very obvious when, when they're not living in the real world when they make a post and you're like, you know, like something just happened in the world. It's this feels weird.
I even saw I mean, I saw a post recently that was from like, boss babe or something that was how burnt out are you and it was like levels of it was toast. It was like eight pieces of toast. White bread, too. Dark, dark, burnt, and I was dying over it. And I was like this is hysterical. And as much as it's not related to the shooting to whatever to all of the political context of the world. It's related to our mental health. So I think that there is that middle ground to You know, that's not tone deaf. That's not necessarily.
It's relatable. Like I put a photo on my stories yesterday, me eating a doughnut, and it was like, How are you coping with your feelings today? And people were was people were going oh my god, I'm eating so much ice cream right now. You know, it's relatable.
Yeah, yeah. So pivoting into our final questions, what is, um, you you both have been around the block for a while you've done this Instagram growth thing you've dominated? What is one thing that shocked you about growing a following other than all of the trauma dumping in your DMS?
Actually, I feel like it's a little how much you are inviting people's unasked for opinions on things. You're like, why I put this out there. And I did not know that. I also put a question in there. What do you think about my choices to the littler? I forgot I put that in there. I did not for sarcasm. That was probably the biggest shock. And that I also have become Google and YouTube. Yes. Many? Harley, we've talked about this a couple of times. Mandy, how do you make a real like, oh, no, no, we're I'm gonna go find a YouTube tutorial for you, sister, or like, how to? It's not that far. I think it's that I became Google for some people. And it was just that kind of, but it was also really good to know that too, that people don't necessarily know that those are resources available to them. So I take it as a learning opportunity. I like to take a lot of moments that would be like, Are you kidding me? Are you really asking you that right now to this is a great learning opportunity. This is a really great moment for me to give you resources. This is a great educational moment, right? Instead of going the please do not waste my time with this question too.
I'm I have so many thoughts about this. Number one, your frickin Saint for sending you.
I have a link saved like it's the most basic and at the same time, like why don't I create something like that? So that's my content that they're going to but I don't want to get into that. But yes, I just got one say that. I'm like, Hey, go copy paste.
To your show write about the uninvited advice. The like, oh, yeah, I'm posting about my hair doesn't look good today. And people jump in with recommendations. I'm like, didn't ask have you tried this?
Have you tried this product or this oil, or this cream or this moose or this cow ear hit?
Company, go ahead.
Try having a baby. It's like Unreal, the amount of unsolicited baby advice we get. And, and I feel like a lot of mothers or women it feels this way that they just assume because to men that we don't know how to raise a kid. So we're getting like, long parents. This is how you should do this. And this time, you should do that. And I'm like, This is how you
want it Joanne
that's been that's been interesting. But I think the thing that probably shocked me the most about like, about growing a following is how little people actually see like, you think they're seeing your content. There are even when you're repeating things you think wow, I've done this like four times. Yeah, and you just assume even people even people who follow you and you're like you You never saw that I made it like I did like four versions of that you know and I think that's one of the things I'm constituting people's like you repeat yourself please repeat yourself there's so much content out there because no one's gonna see it just they just don't see it.
What is your what is your number one piece of advice about putting your big bold capital personality out there
to just frickin do it that's it just to just frickin just do it. We're just I know that this is cheesy and it's cliche but like we're one of a kind individuals there's no other Brett there's no other Harley no other Mandy there might be similarities but that's what brings us together connects us are our similarities and our similar interests. We're all one of a kind beings like that is not something to just overlook. Right? When this mandate is gone, you will never see another version of this Mandy ever again like it is a blessing and a privilege to meet the people that we do. You are also a blessing to be you. So stop thinking that that is something to just like mull over. And like think that it's not anything. Just this like, majestic thing. It's so yeah. Oh, and I again, I know that sounds cheesy and cliche but whatever I'm gonna say it till the day I
die. Yeah, I think that's I think that's true I think the other thing I would probably add to that is just be willing to fail. You're willing to do it badly in order to get good and I think so many people are so afraid they're going to do it wrong or they're comparing it to other people's stuff. And so they just don't do it and it's like, no, you have an idea. Put it out into the world. You never you're never gonna get good at it until you just start doing it. Right.
You can't have those wins without the flops. Give me the flops. I need to see them. I need to know what doesn't work to know what does work. Thank you so much for coming and hanging out on brand new Creator Podcast. You can find Brett and Mandy in the shownotes their Instagrams their tech talks, where to find them where to work with them for more information. Thank you so much for being here. You too.
Thank you. Oh, yes, I want to I want to be in a room with the two of you all day. 24/7 calculator